Monday, February 25, 2008

Another Legend Leaves Minn

Kevin Garnett. Torii Hunter. Randy Moss. Johan Santana. And now, it looks like Troy Williamson is about to be traded. It seems the Jaguars, current home of Mike Tice, are willing to give a second day pick (rounds 4-7) to get him from the Vikings.

I have to imagine the Vikes couldn't say yes to that one fast enough. Second day pick? I'm thinking they'd jump at the chance to trade Williamson for a bag of balls or an empty beehive at this point. Remember how he said he'd caught something like 10,000 balls last off season to help his inability to catch the ball? Didn't work.

Essentially, the Vikings traded Randy Moss for whomever they take with this pick they're getting from Jacksonville. It better be good.

As a nice parting farewell, here are some of Williamson's career highlights:

Farewell. We are accustomed to losing our legendary players, having them plucked one by one away from our great state, ripping a little of our soul out each time. Just add Williamson to the list of heartbreakers and move on.

Virginia Tech -5 vs. Boston College
Ohio State +8 @ Indiana
Tennessee -3 @ Vanderbilt
BYU +4.5 @ New Mexico
So Illinois +1 @ Bradley
Drake -2 @ Missouri State

Yesterday: 3-2
Season: 359-332


Dawg said...

WWWW- I won't pull a WWWW and stomp on your Williamson endzone dance. Instead I will post this Twins/Baseball related material on the comments.

Yesterday, The Red Sox signed Bartolo Colon to a 1 year deal worth 1.2M. We signed that old crusty dominican Hernandez to a 1year deal worth a minimum of 5M.

Why does a team that relies on obtaining free agents on the cheap miss oportunities for a couple of studs that are coming off injuries ie Colon and Prior? These two very well may be busts this year but when you pay Nick Punto 2.1M a year you can find a way to sign the 2005 Cy Young award winner to 1.2M.

Finally I would like to pose a question to the readers. According to Cots, Delmon Young's contract is 5 yrs/5.8M and it runs from 2004-2008. Do the Twins still have arbitration rights to him for a few years after this year or would he be a straight up free agent? I guess I'm not sure how this process works. If he is a free agent after this year then I am officially moving the family to Wisco because I can't handle how bad every MN team is anymore.

WWWWWW said...

They signed Colon for 1.2M for one year? Wow. That seems like a steal. He's been hurt and ineffective for two years, but I'd be willing to give him a shot. Not Prior though.

Once again, it comes down to Carl Pohlad's scrooge like ways. The reason they signed Hernandez and not Colon is because Hernandez will likely give them two hundred or so innings, where Colon is more of a crapshoot. Because of the way Crazy Carl runs the team, they can't afford to "gamble" 1.2 million on someone like Colon. That may be the saddest commentary on the state of the team of all.

On Young - if he already has a long term deal, I think he's no longer arbitration eligible. Which would mean, according to your information, he is a free agent after this year. No way did they trade for a guy who is going to be a free agent, so I'm going to guess I'm wrong here and that he is an arbitration guy.

snacks said...

You people drive me crazy. We have already had this discussion. Free agents like Prior and Colon can pick where they want to play. Prior went to SD because it is where he is from and they have a good shot at the playoffs. Colon obviously went to the Red Sox because they are the best team in the league and he wants to win a world series. Colon would not have signed with a going nowhere Twins squad for 1.2 million. Prior wouldn't have signed with the Twins for what he signed with SD. You are seriously idiots if you think the only reason we didn't get them is that we weren't willing to pay that much. They probably wouldn't have been willing to come here at all, but for sure not unless we made a substantially greater offer. I find it very frustrating to even try and discuss this with you guys, if you can't understand such a fundamental thing.

Dawg said...

Snacks - Trying to respond to your insulting comment without sounding like a jackass will be difficult. Colon and Prior are not hot commodoties and are no longer capable of raking people over the coals. They just don't get to pick and choose when they have been on the shelf for 2+ years or putting up god awful numbers. The Colon signing isn't really earth shattering since it didn't even make the front of the baseball section at 2 years ago Frank Thomas wanted to come here but we opted against it because of health issues. Piazza also was ready to come here but he didn't want to be primarily a DH.

Your anti- MN antics were cute for awhile but a team that has made the post season in baseball 4 out of the last 6 years should not be lumped in with the likes of the Cubs, KC, Toronto, Tampa, FL, Washington etc. They have been competitive.

Have some substance in your rants. Use some concrete examples of people that have chose not to sign here because they didn't want to play for the Twins. To be more specific use free agents that have fallen on hard times and are lucky to sign on with any team but have opted not to sign with the Twins.

I won't consider draft picks from the late 90's early 00's as examples since we were winning 60 games a year if we were lucky.

Never did I say that we didn't get them because we weren't willing to pony up 1.2M. Learn how to read lawdog. The point of my comment was that we are targeting the wrong free agents ie Batista, Ro White, Ponson, Ortiz, Hernandez etc. I

Are you telling me that Colon or Prior would have turned down 1 yr 5M to come here (what we gave Hernandez)? If so then you my friend are the idiot because no business man will leave that much guranteed money on the table for a 1 yr deal.

PS You lost all credibility when you said that Hoffarber was a horrible basketball player.

WWWWWW said...

You're both wrong.

snacks said...

I got bored about half way through that and stopped reading. Did I win?

WWWWWW said...

Actually I give the edge to Dawger right now.

guzman is king said...

I think the dawg is looking at this wrong. A guy like Colon signs with a team that is likely to put up wins. He signed a 1 year deal for a reason. He�s taking a pay cut for the opportunity to have a nice statistical season with a winning team. The chances of having a nice season with a team like the Twins is less likely because of the transition the team is in the year. If I had to guess he have would turned down a 5 million dollar contract from team like the twins. The chances of landing a big contract next year is much greater if he pitches for a winning (by winning I mean legitimate World Series contender) team.

Dawg said...

I would disagree with you Guzy. Since W's are the most irrelevant measure of a good pitcher (IMO) I don't think he would earn a monster contract if he managed to get 23 wins with an ERA of 5.50.

He knows if he pitches well in terms of ERA, WHIP K/BB that he will get paid in 2009 and the years to come. I believe he would have signed a 1 yr 5 M deal in a heartbeat.

I guess we can just disagree on the matter. Baseball players follow the money.

WWWWWW said...

Ok, who's pretending to be Dawg?

dawg said...

suck it WWWWWW

Dawg 1 Snacks 0 said...

Dawg, what does $5 million per year for Colon have to do with anything? Would you really want the Twins to offer $5 million for Colon??? At this point the fat Cuban is a better pitcher than the fat Dominican? At least L.H. will eat some innings. I guess I am confused what you are actually arguing for right now.

Golf Guy said...

When are we going to see another movie preview. The movie guy sucks more than the golf guy!

superterrible said...

As long as the movie guy doesnt think Superbad is the greatest comedy ever. worst 2nd half of a movie ever.

Dawg said...

I would rather have Colon for 5M. Livan is the equivilanet of a long reliever. His only purpose is to eat innings to rest the bull pen. You are basically saying give us 6-8 innings every 5 days and we don't care how many runs you surrender. We aren't really counting on winning that start anyways.

Thats an argument if you could ony have 1 or the other but thats not the situation because the Twins payroll is down around 25 M from 2007. My guess is 3M for 1 year would have got it done. He still has to make the team in Boston before his contract is active.

In other news Lohse is still looking for work.

If the Twins are conceding the season I would have liked to see them do it with guys like Colon and Prior rather then chunky tits Livan.

snacks said...

dawg, i'm glad you are so knowledgeable about what players around the league would accept to play for the Twins. you really should share your brilliant insights (which are based on tons of facts i'm sure) with Bill Smith and Co.

On a related note, Bartolo Colon's last two years: 2006 - 10 starts, 1-5, 56 ip, 71 hits, 5.11 era. 2007 - 18 starts, 6-8, 99 ip, 132 hits, 6.34 era. Sounds like a great $5 million investment! For a guy who has ripped high risk gambles such as Ponson and Ortiz, I can't quite see your logic behind your argument that he would be worth 5 million to the Twins. This looks about as high risk as it gets - hence the 1.2 million contract he got from Boston.

WWWWWW said...

If the Twins had offered $5 to Colon, I would quit. Quit the team, quit being a fan, quit everything.

And Superbad is awesome. You're an idiot!

Dawg said...

Snacks - What are Colon's 2005 stats? You know the year he won the Cy Young prior to getting hurt?

My argument from day 1 back to the Prior discussion was that star talent is worth the risk if the their numbers have been down due to injury.

If I had to choose between Colon and Livan I would take Colon. They are the same age and Colon has a much higher ceilling. Plus you are buying star talent at a Nick Punto price. I'm sure the Twins could have made an offer superior to the Red Sox's 1.2M for 1 year that would have enticed him to play here.

Snacks please share your briliant insight as to what price (if any) players would come to MN since this appears to be your area of expertise?

I'm sure you will back up these statements with evidence other then Bartolo Colon's 06-07 stats which everybody already knew were crap.

snacks said... really think Colon's 2005 stats are indicative of his ceiling is going forward? The man is 35 years old and was hurt most of the last two years - and you expect him just to pop back into cy young form? When a pitcher who has logged as many innings as Colon has two such poor years at age 33 and 34, those aren't just off years - he's past his prime and on the downward end of his career. His "ceiling" is not what it once was, and the Hernandez signing represents much more value for the Twins (a team with a young, inexperienced staff)than a high-risk, mediocre-reward signing of Colon.

WWWWWW said...

I meant $5 million, not $5.

Dharma Bum said...

1 Super bad was awesome.
2 Colon at 1.2M was a slightly better deal than Livian at 5M because of the upside but I would bet a substantial amount of money that Livian pitches 5 times more innings than Colon this year. So they would have been crazy to give Colon 5M because with their young staff they need innings. That said it was BS we gave all this money to Livian, the Houston Astro’s losers and Craig Freaking Monroe when we can’t sign Santana. I thought they needed to trade Santana but that is ridiculous.
3 Delmon Young’s contract was signed after the draft. So that guarantee’s him that money over those years. It is separate to his major league service time though. So after those 5 years he is treated like a normal young player in that he gets arbitration with 3 years in the big leagues and is a free agent after 6. He signed that contract so he would be put on the 40 man roster which means he could only be in the minors for 3 years. The gist of it is I think he has been in the majors for 1+ years so if this is the last year of his contract the twins can renew it for the next two years and he will be in arbitration after the 2010 season.

Dawg said...

Thanks for the good Delmon Young contract info.

I also agree that Livan will likely pitch a crap ton more innings but thats all you can count on him for.

Snacks - There are older pitchers that have a couple bad years later in their careers due to injury and rebound to have more productive years. The best example would be John Smoltz. Colon is worth the risk in my opinion. His last 2 years have been horrible and thats why teams are able to sign him for peanuts.

His best years very well could be behind him but I would spend the money and find out at that price.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe someone is honestly suggesting that the Twins should have spent 5M on B. Colon. His ceiling, are you kidding? He turns 35 in May and is coming off of back to back injury plagued seasons. He's done. Also, in this day and age you have to be skeptical with the whole steroid issue. MLB implements a steroid policy and now that fat turd, for some strange reason, can't stay healthy. Ceiling, too funny! He's 35, not 25.

I agree 5M on Hernandez seems excessive, but Hernandez serves a purpose on this team. With this questionable rotation and winning not being a concern, you sure as hell want someone who will get you 200 IP. And he's 2 years younger than Colon.

P.S. DB, would you please use commas next time.

The Sidler said...

I don't have time to re-read the comments before this, but here goes a few points:

1. Bartolo Colon never had a Cy Young caliber season. His trophy belongs with Santana's other two AL CY awards. A nice season in 2005, yes, but not Cy Young-worthy. Why did he get it? More stupid Wins.

2. More wins = more money for Fatolo.

3. Do NOT use Smoltz as a comp for why Colon might round back into 2005 form. Fat dudes have way different career arcs than non-fat dudes. I bet super fat dudes like Colon are even worse. Maybe Matt LeCroy will break out like Bonds when he's 40 since he's put on as much weight.

5. Livan's deal sucks too. Anyone remember when Kenny Rogers was on the Twins and he'd go out there and throw 140 pitches to save the bullpen? While that was awesome, it wasn't $5mm awesome.

Anonymous said...

Ummm don't count on the "posted age" of senior Livan. Dominicans dont ever seem to really know when they were born, think Orlando Hernandez. Not making any case for Colon here but seriously Livan might be closer to 45 than 35.